Thursday, November 8, 2018

Vampire 5th continues to be a shit show.

Vampire 5th edition, maybe it should be filth edition... continues to be an ongoing shit show.

I'll copy paste what has been said along with posting a screenshot of the text from a new V5 book.  At the bottom I'll link to the original post that I saw.


"Joseph D. Carriker
(Please note this is public, so it can be shared. Interact with it accordingly, folks.)
So, filing this under "Second Verse Same As The First": the excerpt bel...ow is from the upcoming Camarilla book for Vampire: the Masquerade 5th Edition.

In it, it describes a vampire-dominated Chechnya. Even setting aside the gross implications of that design decision - and there are plenty of them - it also turns the internment of queer people into literal death camps into what amounts to a distraction.
This text literally refers to the "controversy" (which is such a weighted word in this context, quite frankly, carrying with it connotations of mountains being made of mole-hills) over queer internment and murder as "clever media manipulation." This text literally turns the ending of queer lives into a throw-away feint that hides vampires. Which is a monstrous reframing of that real-world thing STILL GOING ON.
This is egregiously vile. It's not okay. Our lives are constantly being *ended* for straight peoples' prejudices in real life, but also in fiction and media for straight peoples' fucking entertainment, and all of this is just "second verse same as the first."
This isn't avant garde. This is 100% the typical, tired, cliched treatment that queer people constantly receive in overculture's media about us. This is yet more Tragedy Porn, and not only is it distasteful in the extreme, but it's wildly unacceptable.
I've already spoken about this with Martin Ericsson, and quite honestly I find his framing of the issue to be callous, while hiding behind performative allyship. But I will let him show up and speak to that: he has asked that I not publish his response, pending approval from his bosses, and I'm find by that, for now. But *something* needs to be said, and in the larger framework, something needs to be *done* about the attitudes in the current iteration of White Wolf that makes this kind of seething horseshit not just acceptable, but desirable.
This is not a good fucking look, White Wolf. Not in the least."
Here is the link to the original facebook post:
All I can say is I'm quite happy to not have bought into V5 in the least and never plan on doing so.


  1. I created a petition based on your informing me of this and also my own reaction to the content.

  2. Oh man.
    I read the chapter and really that people can't understand what was said there?
    First of all, this kind of thing happens in real world. Russia don't allow gays, chechenya kills gays ( Even Brazil (country I live) is one of the most dangerous place of homossexual.
    I'm part of queer (I'm ACE) and I read that chapter as a critic about what is happening in name of old traditions, religions, beliefs etc.

    In any part has said: kill gays is ok!
    There are a plenty parts that is a huge warning:

    "Chechnya is the one place on this earth we can truly call
    our own, over which we rule unchallenged. It is a terrifying
    place for mortal breathers, but the most thrilling oriental
    garden of delight that has ever existed for beings such as us." (p 63)

    "I cannot guarantee tonight that the Islamic state
    which Abrek has created in Chechnya, and which is
    currently reveling in triumphalism and wild optimism,
    will not be transformed over time into another Sabbat
    prepared to declare jihad
    against the world." (p63)

    "Members of Abrek are nihilists and fascists, and
    not indifferent to such human qualities as arrogance
    and limitless ambition. They view the Cainite species
    as superior to humans and Abrek as the greatest movement
    in history, and they have a 100-year agenda they
    will sacrifice anything to achieve. They are so extreme
    in their outlook that they make mortal terrorists
    — many of whom work under their influence if not
    control — look nearly sane." (p65)

    "All mortals who reside in
    Chechnya have been given identity
    cards which mark their blood
    type and the times they must
    present themselves at a feeding
    hall. Those who fail to register at
    the appropriate time are hunted
    down by the gorets and trained
    to become wild game for the
    mountain hunts." (p66) -> everybody lives in a concentration camp

    There are a LOT of signs that this is more a critic about reality than a endorsement to it.

    You guys need to learn the meaning of something.
    Know a language isn't at all, know what is reading.

    Here in Brazil, the president elect made this strategy: distorted information, wrong information and mass manipulation to win the elections.
    This guy post made the same: took an info without context and said a plenty of horrible and wrong things.

    1. If you read that chapter critically, did you see the part where they talked about those real world atrocities and described them as a "distraction" from the bullshit for their invented monsters?

      People engaging in activism to get queer people out of these actual concentration camps say that the hardest issue around getting people to do something about it is the fact that people are dismissive of it happening.

      If art is going to use real world horror, then it needs to keep the focus not only on that horror (and not present it only so their made-up bad guys seem scary) but they also need to not attribute it to fictional people when it is happening because of real-world people.

      So, suffice to say, I wildly disagree with your hot take here. You're queer - you should be standing up for the queer people in those camps, not siding with people who minimize and diminish what is happening there.

    2. You are making me laugh so hard in this morning.

      Ok, let me see....

      "bullshit for their invented monsters" Im so glad that vampires didn't exists, really!
      But I play a game with invented monsters inserted in a real situation. So.... if this thing is happening in reallity this makes me a LOT more afraid and angry than "the distraction" of invented monsters.

      Fantasy always take things of reality to shout out this problem and spit it in the face of people that doesn't look for reality.
      For me this part is being AWESOME and serving it's purpose. You don't know how happy I am seeing a lot of nerds that don't look for the special causes arguing about "real world atrocities and described them as a "distraction" from the bullshit for their invented monsters?".

      See this atrocity in television is ok, but OH MY GOD this atrocity was placed im my invented world of invented monsters! OMG THIS IS SO HORRIBLE

      Ok dont buy v5, make a petition, but at least, use your perplexity and donate for those groups, until you do it you are just whining.

    3. I made the petition because I believe it will benefit them to remove the chapter and show the rest of the (excellent) book off as well as how awesome V5 is.

  3. This is why we can't have nice things. A few paragraphs poorly worded and the out cry will cripple white wolf because you loose your collective minds.

    1. Actually it appears the entire section on Chechnya will not cripple White Wolf, but sink it. As the Chechan government is very angry about it and in response Paradox is ending White Wolf as an inhouse publishing branch.

  4. Are you tired of being human, having talented brain turning to a vampire in a good posture in ten minutes, Do you want to have power and influence over others, To be charming and desirable, To have wealth, health, without delaying in a good human posture and becoming an immortal? If yes, these your chance. It's a world of vampire where life get easier,We have made so many persons vampires and have turned them rich, You will assured long life and prosperity, You shall be made to be very sensitive to mental alertness, Stronger and also very fast, You will not be restricted to walking at night only even at the very middle of broad day light you will be made to walk, This is an opportunity to have the human vampire virus to perform in a good posture. If you are interested contact us on
    Or Add up on Whats-app +233248104710

    1. I'm not deleting this comment because it is just so fucking bizarre. Some people are more delusional than what I thought.

  5. - " Actually it appears the entire section on Chechnya will not cripple White Wolf, but sink it. As the Chechan government is very angry about it and in response Paradox is ending White Wolf as an inhouse publishing branch. " Truly has it . This content will be erased , - but more than this all of what White Wolf did here will
    be labeled as neo nazi merchandising , the trick of trade would be
    turn some sort of critisizing stance into neo nazi propaganda .

    In my opinion it is more about this : It is a hard thing to do -
    make a video game having this size and establish some content in Chechnya. If so , why? I must admit that I woudn ´t have implemented such a location I myself , but nevermind , London for example could ´ ve been a even weaker choice .

    Anyways . Look , they will make Bloodlines 2 a 1st person perspective game.This has almost nothing to do with what we knew or wanted.More than that , I think it is fairly unnecessary to write some content that wants to engage or motivate in a authentical way , I don ´t need the daily dose of what went wrong in the world if
    all I try to reach out to is some sort of , well , alternative .
    Speaking of alternatives - figure out how people at Paradox speak about looking into the future . And getting mature ( in fact they should be mature , looks like they are mature , doesn ´t it ).

    Take franchises like Altered cabron , Cyberpunk 2077 , Ridley Scott ´s Blade Runner and it makes me think that in the future everything shall look like that .EMF everywhere , but let ´s not get too nazi , ehm , PC , ehm , conspiracy theorist . Lonesome vampire at night . Get the picture ?

  6. Vampires is not at all like in the movies or books. Sure, I understand. You are young you have the whole world open to you. You can be anything that you choose if you apply yourself and try hard to work toward that goal. But being a Vampire is not what it seems like. It’s a life full of good, and amazing things. We are as human as you are.. It’s not what you are that counts, But how you choose to be. Do you want a life full of interesting things? Do you want to have power and influence over others? To be charming and desirable? To have wealth, health, and longevity, I can help you solve any problem you are having
    (1) If you want your ex back.
    (2) If you want to stop having bad dreams.
    (3) You want to be promoted in your office.
    (4) You want women/men to run after you.
    (5) If you want a child.
    (6) You want to be rich.
    (7) You want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.
    (8) If you need financial assistance.
    (9) If you want to stop your divorce.
    (10 If you want to divorce your husband.
    (11) If you want your wishes to be granted.
    contact the Vampires Lord on his Email:

    1. Dude, you must be on some really, REALLY good drugs.

  7. Heya i'm for the first time here. I found this board and I find It really useful & it helped me out much. I hope to give something back and help others like you helped me.

  8. You guys are the ruination of vampire, can we make an anne rice RPG s o you fuckers can just all fuck off and get out of vampire?

    WoD is a world of DARKNESS, it's ALWAYS been about evil and darkness and monstrousness.

    It's not homophobia and racism, EVERYONE is a victim in this series, no exceptions, even the monsters themselves!

    If you've a problem with it, then kill these russian bastards with your coterie and let off some steam?

    1. Love it when 'unknowns' show up. It's always worth a laugh when they attempt to make a rant.